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Jesuits and Colin Standish

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I am throwing out a challenge to some of you dear brothers and sisters in this denomination. For years I have heard about Jesuit infiltrators in the highest echelons of the Seventh-day Adventist Church. All I ask is that you produce one actual, verifiable case. Just one. If you are so certain of this that you can endlessly repeat the accusation, then surely you've got (or can get) the goods on at least one contemporary church leader who you can expose publicly, and so provide clear, irrefutable evidence that someone in a critical position in our denomination has been placed there by the Jesuit order and is operating on behalf of the Vatican.

I don't mean people whose actions in leadership or whose interpretations of Adventist doctrine you don't agree with, and so you fling this accusation at them like a handful of mud. We can't accept as evidence Jack Chick's comic book stories about "Father" Alberto Rivera, which have been thoroughly debunked. Nor is it enough to quote Colin Standish. He doesn't have any proof, either. Nor "I heard this from the friend of a nephew of the second cousin of the grandfather of a guy I used to work with whose name I can't remember" or "I heard that this happened in 1951." Put current, rock-hard, stand-up-in-court proof before our General Conference leaders.

And if you can't, then follow the counsel of Exodus 23:1 "Thou shall not utter a false report." These accusations are not strengthening our work, but making our message of hope about the return of Jesus into something to scorn.

From article "My Jesuitical Tendencies" - http://www.atoday.com/my-jesuitical-tendencies

Some responses:

On December 6th, 2010 Archiver says:
Dear Loren, For the Record... Having worked with Colin Standish VERY closely for 30 yeasrs, i can never remember a single instance in which he has ever suggested that anyone involved in denominational work is a Jesuit to anyone. Nor has he in any of his public statements, or in any of his writings, to my knowledge, ever made inferences of the sort you are discussing in your article. Having travelled with him and listened to him speak hundreds of times, had he said something like that, he would have probably said it a number of times, and at least once in my hearing. Having had perhpas thousands of private conversations with him, i can never remember any such statements, even in jest.

Colin is a man of integrity who is not given to unverifiable statements. There are those who may not like what he says, or who may dispute his conclusions on matters of faith or practice, but that is quite a different matter. He is widely respected, even by those who disagree with him. If someone said to you that Colin Standish said such and such about a Jesuit plot in the Advenitst church, or suggested that this individual or that individual is a Jesuit, they were misrepresenting him.

By the way you wrote your comment, it appeared that you assumed that your informant correctly represented something Colin allegedly said. Hence you have propigated unverifiable rumors like those you decry (The best I can assume that you did not check with him first before making such a suggestion). Including his name in your article (the only SDA other than yourself) was rather gratuitous since neither you nor the person who may have referenced him have any evidence of him saying anything of the sort. This reference suggests you may have some sort of grievance. If so, perhpas you should contact him directly and sort it out. If not, perhaps it would have been better to leave a fellow believer's name out of your article, particularly if there is a perjaorative tone to the comment.

By the way, i agree with your position that we should not make statements that are unverifiable. It only discredits our faith. For instance, there were those who claimed that the Sunday law was passed in Germany in late 2009 when in reality, the German High Court merely defended the constitution against the city of Berlin which was trying to liberalize Sunday shopping. The claim had nothing to do with reality. And those who propagated it obviously had not read the relevant news reports carefully. While it bears watching carefully, it was a Sunday closing law that was involved, not a Sunday worship law - a huge difference. Spreading false statements only makes the propagator look foolish, fanatical, irresponsible, or otherwise.

On the other hand, there are often facts to work with, so that none need be speculative. For instance, not that long ago, two Jesuit priests lectured on missions at a day class at Andrews University, a fact that Dr. Fortin verified (and defended). Verifiable documentation is available. Spiritual accountability may require that something like this be made public, but it should be done in an appropriate way and in an appropriate manner.

If we are going to discuss things of end-time significance, we should be meticulous in documentation. Having learned my own lessons in this, i believe that we should not give details of events or make statements about people (either direct or implied) that we have not verified. We are all prone to this mistake, often in support of our own internal realities whatever they are. May God help us to obey all His commandments and not bear false witness against anyone.

Christian Regards,

Hal

On December 6th, 2010 orion-mark says:
Dear Brother Seibold,

Thank you for enlightening me with regard to the sources of some of the myth surrounding the Jesuits. I found it interesting. While the Catholic Church has and will continue to play a significant role in the history and future of the controversy surrounding God's church, we should be careful to be accurate concerning their role.

As a firm believer in a literal 6 day creation, nothing frustrates me more than to hear Creationists quote inaccurate data to support their beliefs. Nothing does more harm to truth than a small dose of error.

I noticed in your article a mention to Dr. Colin Standish in a context that suggests that he might be guilty of also spreading false information regarding the Jesuits. I have known him personally for over fifteen years, I have sat in his classes and I have listened to his sermons and lectures. In all those years I have never known him to knowingly utter a syllable of falsehood. He is a reputable man as well as a scholarly one. In particular, I have never heard him make any statements in support of the issues you raise in your article.

We all need to be careful with regard to checking our facts.

On January 13th, 2011 Loren Seibold says:
Really not hard to find Dr. Standish's thinking on Jesuit infiltration in the Adventist church. It has been widely quoted.

"Of course there are Jesuits in our church." (Russell R. Standish, Colin D. Standish, The General Conference Confronts Apostasy, Hartland Publications, 2006, p 201)

To his credit, he adds, "But we have ever felt it to be an exercise in futility to nominate candidates for the designation of Jesuit-infiltrators."

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  1. Jun 25, 2011

    Anonymous

    Dr. Seibold, you could go ahead and admit that you are one...

  2. Jun 25, 2011

    Anonymous

    Dr. Seibold, you could go ahead and admit that you are one...

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